haikujaguar: Reviews and Such

M. C. A. Hogarth (

haikujaguar) wrote,
@ 2008-05-01 18:24:00

Current mood:	flu-ish
Entry tags:	books, reviews

Reviews and Such
Meanwhile, The Fix has an excellent review of the Aphorisms discussing why the book didn't work for the reviewer. If you didn't like the shorts and couldn't articulate why, I think this reviewer did an excellent job of discussing it.

I should point out that the reviewer carefully examined the book and analyzed it, and I think he did a good job of deconstructing why it failed for him. So don't take this as upset. I could only wish all people who disliked a piece of art were so thoughtful about their reasons why. :)

Stardancer Home.

(Post a new comment)

	shdragon 2008-05-01 10:45 pm UTC (link)
	I do wonder how much of the power of the Aphorisms project would be lost by -only- picking up the book and experiencing it that way. How much extra of the story were we all privy to, how much of those idiosyncrasies that seemed to stand out in the review were explained by what happened here, in your journal? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	haikujaguar 2008-05-01 10:47 pm UTC (link)
	I don't know, it's a good question. But that's why I link to the website in the book, and link to the discussions on the website. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

zilvar
2008-05-01 11:06 pm UTC (link)

From the standpoint of the reviewer, it'd have been interesting if he had the Admonishments available to him as the negative to the unrelentingly positive (pretty much what I took from the review).

It's also not meant to be read all in one sitting. You've described it as a coffee table book...or something that you put on display for people to thumb through when conversation falters or they're alone (or you need a pick-me-up). I felt a little like he missed the point there.

Finally...amateurish art? feh. smack him. :)

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	haikujaguar 2008-05-01 11:15 pm UTC (link)
	If you take Kherishdar as an oppressive empire, though, what Shame does only magnifies the flaws of the society because he basically goes around making people act the way they've been prescribed to act. That makes him a state goon, not a sign that there's room for negative/dissent in the empire. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	arielstarshadow 2008-05-01 11:36 pm UTC (link)
	Perhaps we need more information about the Exception? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

haikujaguar
2008-05-01 11:39 pm UTC (link)

Perhaps. But that takes me into territory that makes stories uninteresting. We all know about the evil oppressive caste empire that makes it impossible for everyone to be happy. The Exception's stories are all about why it doesn't work. Other people have written those stories.

I wanted to write the far more unusual stories about how it can work. And leave it up to the readers whether it's all about the aliens... or all about us. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

artfulruin
2008-05-02 12:07 am UTC (link)

This is why I've respected your work on this project so much. You've made it entirely clear that these people are aliens, and that they believe and value things that are alien to us. You are letting them speak for themselves, not putting words in their mouths, or censoring them.

The reviewer missed this point, I think. I'm sorry, but I cannot accept his review as thoughtful. It's sloppy, and his ridiculous dichotomy between fantasy and science fiction has already been dismissed over and over by intelligent critics, writers and scholars.

It's obvious that the Calligrapher is biased, that he is not looking for ways to criticize his society. By the same token, you as the writer are not fettering the reader in any way. It is our responsibility, as readers, to criticize Kerishdar ourselves. The Calligrapher isn't going to help us. Instead, we must go in as true anthropologists, look for hints, be polite, realize where we as aliens are drawing a complete blank.

This is the best sort of science fiction. Subtle.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	haikujaguar 2008-05-02 02:32 pm UTC (link)
	A lot of people seem to disagree with his classification of fantasy versus science fiction. It's certainly not one I ever would have thought of, given that some of my favorite science fiction is basically Horatio Hornblower in space (military SF). :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	archangelbeth 2008-05-02 12:43 am UTC (link)
	Would all the Exception's stories be about why it doesn't work? Serious question. I mean, the easy answer is "Yes, they would be all the places it doesn't work." Is the easy answer the right answer? (I mean, it could be. But it seems there are other possibilities, seen from the corner of my mind's eye.) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	haikujaguar 2008-05-02 02:25 pm UTC (link)
	Possibly, possibly not. But it's not an avenue I'm much interested in right now. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

arielstarshadow
2008-05-02 01:40 am UTC (link)

Here's where I get as philosophical as possible given I'm operating on little to no sleep after seven days in a hotel (which, no matter how lovely, I just can't sleep well in).

I suspect there will be people who will dislike Kherishdar precisely because so much of us is reflected within it, and precisely because it makes them uncomfortable.

We like to think that "all men are created equal" but you know what? They - WE - aren't. There is still a hierarchy within our supposedly equal society. The problem is that it's a hierarchy that doesn't work, doesn't treat its people with respect, and is based on having and not having. Kherishdar will make many uncomfortable because it WORKS - people like to think that this is a society of equals even as they are scratching and clawing their way higher, ignoring the fact that they are pushing others down to do so. They don't want to be confronted with the truth.

Others will find Kherishdar comforting because it works, and we dream of a similar society, where the man who picks up our garbage is given the same respect and is valued as much as the CEO.

Edited at 2008-05-02 01:41 am UTC

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lady_ravenlocke
2008-05-02 02:04 am UTC (link)

Having read this review, which was more thoughtful than most, I can't help but wonder what people will make of my Dystopia if/when I finally get it published. It's about another world that, for what it is and when it is, works.

I've found reading the Aphorisms (and the Admonishments) interesting, precisely for the reason you wrote them. To see a civilization like this that actually does seem to work.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	zilvar 2008-05-02 02:13 am UTC (link)
	As has already been pointed out below, the Exception might be a better viewpoint from which the reviewer could be interested in the society. I do think that Shame's job provides sufficient counterpoint, given the types of crimes we're seeing him deal with, but you're probably right on how the reviewer would have reacted. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	captainq 2008-05-01 11:33 pm UTC (link)
	Ahhh...yes. He's right, but as others have said--he is out of context. The Aphorisms and The Admonishments are Companion Books to your novel(s). Perhaps they should be advertised as such? (Edit: curses, foiled by spelling errors) Edited at 2008-05-01 11:34 pm UTC (Reply to this)(Thread)

	haikujaguar 2008-05-02 02:27 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, but I didn't write the Aphorisms, planning to write the Admonishments. The latter was an idea that came up later, and was a surprise to me. They work together, yes, but the Aphorisms weren't written as the "light side" of something on purpose. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	captainq 2008-05-02 04:44 pm UTC (link)
	Ah, I figured you might misunderstand, which was the reason for so many edits. I did not mean to say that the Aphorisms and the Admonishments are companion books to each other. Rather, they are two separate yet related books that could be used as companions to your novel(s). (Reply to this)(Parent)

	koogrr 2008-05-02 12:10 am UTC (link)
	Wow, that was an interesting review, though there were a couple things said I thought were unfair. Still, good points, some of which you could address in the Admonishments. (Reply to this)

tonithegreat
2008-05-02 01:01 am UTC (link)

Part of the reason that I think I found the aphorisms so enjoyable was because you were putting them up for discussion the way you initially released them. I thought they were provoking in part, because like the reviewer, I don't think a society like Kerishdar could possibly be a happy place for everyone. I don't think that thinking beings making up a society that is so analogous to a human society could have easy niches to fit into, the way the evaluation of Ishas supposedly fit every ai-nadiri into a niche. But it was very interesting to think about why Kerishdar made me uncomfortable, particularly in light of stories that were told from the point of view of someone who deeply believed in the society. To me, public servants who believe in their jobs are intensely interesting. The caligrapher and shame have that in spades.

You yourself made a post early on about how writing about Kerishdar with it's many deep strictures scared you, if I recall correctly. This fits in with that interestingly.

(Reply to this)

laturner
2008-05-02 04:08 am UTC (link)

Interesting review. I would say that he probably enjoyed the book more than some who will simply read the words once and put it down. He seems to want the alien society to be human at its core, and can't wrap his head around the fact that the society is truly alien. These are not humans forced into alien roles.

I also think that the Aphorisms are better read a few at a time, like poetry. Would you read an entire book of poems at once? The Aphorisms are meant to be savoured and considered, not all lumped into a pile.

It was a very well-written review though, I have to agree. :)

(Reply to this)

	Thoughts ysabetwordsmith 2008-05-02 05:06 am UTC (link)
	If it's aptly done, readers whose tastes differ from the reviewer's taste should be able to tell that they'll like the book. chuckle Twice I've had authors respond to a meticulous negative review of mine by sending me expensive gifts. Apparently what I said was Very Useful in some way. It is still ... bemusing. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: Thoughts haikujaguar 2008-05-02 02:27 pm UTC (link)
	well, he apparently sold a book for me, laugh (Reply to this)(Parent)

	alex_beecroft 2008-05-02 08:27 am UTC (link)
	I think a negative review like this is a good thing, at least if I imagine that other people will have the same reaction as me. Which is; ooh, sounds interesting, I must get the book to find out if he's right. :) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	haikujaguar 2008-05-02 02:29 pm UTC (link)
	Apparently someone did! laugh (Reply to this)(Parent)

	poliphilo 2008-05-02 09:27 am UTC (link)
	I think your decision to present an alien civilisation from within and entirely on its own terms is what makes the Aphorisms so fascinating. Your people aren't modern western people loosely disguised in robes and fur but truly other. To introduce explicit criticism of their society into the text would be to render it less rare and extraordinary. (Reply to this)(Thread)

haikujaguar
2008-05-02 02:29 pm UTC (link)

If I had criticized it, it would have been my criticism.

Writing it thus, I hope everyone comes to their own critical evaluation of it, which is far more illuminating. I hope, anyway.

Besides, in the current genre climate, criticizing a society like Kherishdar is comfort food, because it's expected. We know all the criticisms that should apply, in a list we can run down and check off: "Stifles the individual, government oppression, caste system taking away individual choice," etc, etc. There is no rigor involved. We have all been inculcated with this system of beliefs.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

ichthyus
2008-05-02 12:32 pm UTC (link)

My $0.02 from the perspective of a scientist-nerd who doesn't know much about literature, so please take it with a shovelful of salt. I think the perspectives of the reviewer were remarkably one-dimensional & insular. He approached the book with a very western world-view & therefore missed most of the beauty of it, by viewing Kherishdar as an oppressive, backward society full of constraints & rules. I grew up in an eastern country that did have a lot of constraints & rules & can see the difference between that & Kherishdar. I think Pauser describes my feeling for the whole work perfectly - the perspective one needs to make Kherishdar work with the beauty & simplicity it possesses. The reviewer could not see beyond the Western ideaologies of independence & self-sufficience & so the beauty of self given up for others (which is as I view it) was completely lost on him.

I could be wrong & I beg your indulgence if I have misunderstood either your works or the review. See, coming from the Indian background I possess & having experienced the constraints & rules that the viewer seems to percieve in Kherishdar, there is something in your art that soothes my soul & helps me get some peace with the more unsavoury aspects of my culture.

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	haikujaguar 2008-05-02 02:30 pm UTC (link)
	There is no need to beg indulgence. You have read the works and they spoke to you, and that's all that a piece of art can ever ask for. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

Opening My Big Mouth

hyanan
2008-05-02 07:37 pm UTC (link)

I think it's an intelligent criticism, and fairly in-depth.

Generally speaking, I think people, and especially critics, look to find some agenda or some insight with regard to the mind of "The Author." When in graduate school, I had a very pessimistic view of the exegetical process favored by the academy at the time...namely that it was based in pointed bashing. My views never went over well, to say the least, particularly when I equated the process with rape (yes, I was insane). Surely if a critic seeks agenda in an author, are they not guilty of such a thing as critics who also are writers?

As an aside, I remember reading an article in an old copy of the Harvard alum magazine that talked about the "orthodoxy of liberalism" or something like that.

Truly, I don't claim to be liberal or conservative, or anything like that, generally because I don't feel the need to nor do I feel the need to engage in the debates of others. However, beneath the surface of the Aphorisms I felt a similar feeling as I felt from that article. They both called this trend into question. I don't know if this was missed by the critic, or if this was evident, or if perhaps I know this since I've known you forever.

Lastly, I do not think The Exception would be what other people expect her to be, nor her voice and stories, if you think truly about them. Maybe this is just my own personal feeling. ;)

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Re: Opening My Big Mouth

haikujaguar
2008-05-02 09:06 pm UTC (link)

I dunno, you'd have explain better because I read that third paragraph over and over and couldn't figure it out. But then, I'm coming down from a fever. -_-

And I think you're right about the Exception. But it would be hard to do it right, you know?

Besides, I'm not sure I want to hear more about how oppressive I am to women because the Exception is a woman, blah blah blah.

I now have a theory about reviews, though, which I think I will stick to.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	marram 2008-05-03 12:25 am UTC (link)
	Interesting... (Reply to this)

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