M. C. A. Hogarth ([info]haikujaguar) wrote,
@ 2008-02-05 12:37:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood:!
Entry tags:ai-naidar, culture, language, meta-conversations

Messed-Up
The language lessons are easier with Shame than with the Calligrapher, which seems counter-intuitive. Maybe I know Shame cares less about my (horrible) penmanship. Or maybe I too well recognize how the Calligrapher's love of the word itself is entwined with the concept, and it makes me more self-conscious about getting it wrong.

Shame is all about the meaning. Anything else he ignores. So I sit with my little list of concepts and the existing lexicon and try to find the new words. That's how I run across this one:

fushel [ foo SHEHL ], (adjective) – rejected; specifically, when one offers a loved one necessary help but is refused, resulting in the loved one limping onward in poor state out of stubbornness.

"Ouch," I mutter. "You have a word for that?"

"You don't?" he says. "You should."

I can't disagree with that. It's how I find the next:
iekuvren [ ye KOOV rehn ], (noun) – destructive independence; in which a person believes they do not require or must not ask for the aid of others, or the connection of relationships, or love when in fact they do and must, and push all attempts of those who care about them away. This quality leads to akuvrash.

"Oh, hey," I say. "You have a word for that too." I'm beginning to feel embarrassed and I can't tell why. Maybe it's a pot-kettle thing. Except the next word is so unsettling that I forget to blush.
akuvrash [ ah koo VRAASH ], (noun) – the local destruction of an individual's community, caused by their inability or unwillingness to accept aid, love or form connections.

He says nothing and continues reading his book. Pointedly. I mutter and keep taking notes.
vashkavr [ vahsh KAHVR ], (adjective) – messed up; usually refers to a community substantially crippled by missing connections or broken ones.

I am wondering why I can't find a more formal definition for this one when Shame says casually from the window-seat, "You won't want to say that one out loud."

I pause, then say, "Is that an expletive?"

He snorts, amused. I assume this is agreement.

"I didn't know you cursed," I say, because I've heard him use this word. A lot.

"People only ask for me when none of their own efforts have worked and they've tried everything," Shame says. "You see as many such situations as I do without having a word to describe them accurately."

"It's all about the accuracy," I say, wry.

"Nothing says messed-up like vashkavr," he says.


Stardancer Home.


(Post a new comment)

Thoughts
[info]ysabetwordsmith
2008-02-05 06:14 pm UTC (link)
I know people who would benefit from this vocabulary.

In exchange, I offer Shame our "fubar" and its relatives:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR#Related_acronyms

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Thoughts
[info]haikujaguar
2008-02-05 06:21 pm UTC (link)
And it is thus posted here for easing linking.

The link is amusing, though none of the Ai-Naidar will every really understand why we use that particular word as an expletive. :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]captainq
2008-02-05 06:15 pm UTC (link)
Is there a difference between refusing to get help, and getting help from the wrong places?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]haikujaguar
2008-02-05 06:20 pm UTC (link)
He asks for an example of the latter?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]archangelbeth
2008-02-05 06:35 pm UTC (link)
My thoughts on the latter:
• From the broken, who prefer to keep one beneath them to feel stronger...
• From those who are not strong enough to give it -- the broken-legged asking the lame to carry them.
• A variation on the one just above -- from those who are not emotionally/maturity-wise equipped to cope: adults leaning on children for support in... vashkavr family situations.
• Help that is not help, but validation of something that is broken. Co-dependency probably falls into this category. People who don't want help out of the pit, but want to be coddled within it. (This can be a learned dependency; see the first version.)
• From those who will take a higher payment than is fair, in exchange for help. The sort who will give one a car lift, and expect one forever more to repay that favor-debt.

(Mind, huge chunks of this are either alien entire, or stuff that is likely to make Shame do his equivalent of a facepalm and "Yeah, but that's the stuff I have to fix...")

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 06:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 06:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 06:53 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 07:27 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 07:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 07:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 07:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 08:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 08:49 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 09:01 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 09:01 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 09:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 09:12 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 09:13 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]tuftears, 2008-02-05 08:50 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 08:51 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 07:32 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-02-05 07:07 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 07:10 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-02-05 07:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dajagr, 2008-02-05 07:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 07:37 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]captainq, 2008-02-05 06:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 06:44 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]dark_blade
2008-02-05 06:40 pm UTC (link)
I'm curious about this as well, or at least something similar.. though my example may be more extreme than captainq is aiming for.

A girl/woman who feels she does not quite fit comes to think that a man is her shining knight, her love, her safe harbor, that he balances her shortcomings or where she has trouble, that Together They Can Do It. Then as time passes, that trust and love is found to be misplaced, that he has been slowly pushing her into isolating herself from friends, chipping away at ties and connections between her and her family such that the mistrust built during that time still stains and chafes over five years after he is gone.

I suppose that is more of a different thing entirely.. and guessing at what Shame might say to such a situation leaves me biting at my lip a bit.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 06:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]captainq, 2008-02-05 07:07 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 07:14 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]captainq, 2008-02-05 07:37 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]manycolored, 2008-02-05 07:44 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dark_blade, 2008-02-05 11:45 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]artfulruin
2008-02-05 06:20 pm UTC (link)
Hee! I've got a new curse word. *giggle*

(Reply to this)


[info]archangelbeth
2008-02-05 06:36 pm UTC (link)
Hm. How does one use fushel in a sentence?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]haikujaguar
2008-02-05 06:39 pm UTC (link)
"What's wrong with him?"

"He's fushel."

There's a verb form, when someone [rejects] you. But I can't seem to find a noun form. I think they may not separate the feeling from the act that makes you feel the feeling.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]archangelbeth
2008-02-05 07:10 pm UTC (link)
Ahhhh. That form of adjective. Interesting.

Perhaps rejection cannot exist in a vacuum, and thus there is no noun form? If there is not someone to be rejected, there is no rejection?

Though it does disallow the possibility of "I feel wrongfully rejected [in my offer of help]"?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 07:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-02-05 07:24 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 07:24 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-02-05 07:30 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]talix18, 2008-02-05 07:47 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 07:49 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]talix18, 2008-02-05 08:15 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dark_blade, 2008-02-06 12:11 am UTC (Expand)

[info]puffbird
2008-02-05 06:40 pm UTC (link)
This is fascinating. I wish English had words for some of these things.

(Reply to this)


[info]fatfred
2008-02-05 06:53 pm UTC (link)
Heh. I wrote about something like that a little while ago.
Wolftrap.
When your pain makes you snap and try to drive away the people who reach out to help you.
You don't mean to, you need the help. But the pain overwhelms.
Like an animal caught in a trap, you may hurt those who only want to release you.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]haikujaguar
2008-02-05 06:54 pm UTC (link)
Ooh! That's an awesome word!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)


[info]fatfred
2008-02-05 07:00 pm UTC (link)
It works for humans. Grin.

Ask Shame if they have anything like that.
Most of the words he has told you seem to tell of how the society views the individual, how does the individual feel?
He is an instrument of the society. One could understand his bias.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-02-05 07:11 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]_eljefe_
2008-02-05 10:31 pm UTC (link)
I'm not entirely certain that I like it. But that might just be me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]manycolored
2008-02-05 07:33 pm UTC (link)
Oooh, that is a NASTY feeling.

I have another feeling to name. When you feel poisoned by the anger and hate you feel *toward yourself*, and that enrages you to a state of wolftrap, causing you to lash out at others.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]endlessland
2008-02-05 07:18 pm UTC (link)
Alien words are an absolute joy to discover, even if the translator isn't competent and the alien is a scoundrel. I started wondering if he was joking when he told me the race has words for things-that-don't-have-concepts-in-their-world. (Do the Ai-Naidar have a word like that, besides aunerai?) Its a lexical nightmare.

That said, your Ai-Naidari words are sublime. I haven't seen one yet that looks out of place in the context of all the others, and they all make sense in a certain...well, alien way.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]endlessland
2008-02-05 07:19 pm UTC (link)
Er, by "translator isn't competent and alien is a scoundrel", I was referring to myself. Not you. Whoops! :)

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]kyburg
2008-02-05 07:29 pm UTC (link)
Outstanding.

(Reply to this)


[info]miintikwa
2008-02-05 08:52 pm UTC (link)
Do Shame and the Exception ever interact? It seems to me that he is one who would understand her in a significant way.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]haikujaguar
2008-02-05 08:52 pm UTC (link)
<.<

>.>

*hides story*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 09:05 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2008-02-05 09:05 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeriendhal, 2008-02-05 09:36 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]tabard, 2008-02-05 10:07 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2008-02-05 10:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2008-02-06 03:37 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]miintikwa, 2008-02-05 09:06 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeriendhal, 2008-02-05 09:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]miintikwa, 2008-02-05 09:41 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]stokerbramwell
2008-02-05 10:02 pm UTC (link)
He has a potty mouth? Tsk! I'd say "shame on him," buuuuuuuut... XD

(Reply to this)


[info]dark_blade
2008-02-06 12:13 am UTC (link)
What if help is offered by someone who thinks they can, but can't?

Example: a child not strong enough or skilled enough to well do what is offered, or perhaps could do it but would create a mess that would require more mess to clean up than the original activity involved.

(Reply to this)


[info]caerwynx
2008-02-06 12:45 am UTC (link)
This...hmmm...I'm searching for words.

This filled me. It...patched...me today.

Thank you.

*must think on this more*

(Reply to this)


[info]lilithraevyn
2008-04-02 06:36 am UTC (link)
I'm sorry I missed this when it was first posted. I think, however, I would not have been able to appreciate it as much then as I can now.

Especially; iekuvren

There I am.

(Reply to this)


Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…