M. C. A. Hogarth ([info]haikujaguar) wrote,
@ 2007-04-25 09:55:00
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Current mood:sigh
Entry tags:reviews

Sad Clones
I have just tossed Book #5 on the sell-back pile. I didn't even get forty pages into this one.

I never thought I'd say this, but... there is such a thing as a bad clone of a good book. Usually I like variations on a theme, but the key is... they have to be variations. They can't be obvious attempts at copies.

Look, I know Anita Blake did great and Harry Dresden is hot, and everyone thought Phedre was sexy. But can we at least change the books that are trying to capitalize on their success a wee tiny bit? Do they all have to be written in First Person Gutsy? Do they all have to have the same kind of romantic problems as the originals? God above, you could even just change the gender of the protagonist and it would be more interesting.

'Inspired by' is one thing. 'Attempting to hit the formula' is just...

*covers face* God, I am so disappointed. When someone said, "I'm trying to buy books like Kushiel's Dart, so give me fantasy with a female courtesan," I sent in science fiction with a male ambassador.

No wonder no one buys my work.


Stardancer Home.


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[info]dashingpooka
2007-04-25 02:16 pm UTC (link)
I would, personally, prefer the male ambassador.

And count me ignorant, but I don't know where to purchase your books. I'm quite serious, here. How can I get hold of one? :)

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[info]haikujaguar
2007-04-25 02:20 pm UTC (link)
Not ignorance on your part: they haven't sold yet. I have a literary agent, and she's attempting to sell them to someone who will publish them.

In the mean-time, I have sold short stories, and many of those are available online... you can find those by following the links on my Technopeasant entry.

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[info]dashingpooka
2007-04-25 02:28 pm UTC (link)
Ah. Now, those I did read, every single one. The samples are what prompted the er, need for the rest.

Tell your agent to hurry on up. :) My bookshelves are empty, these days; I could see your works filling them quite well.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dashingpooka, 2007-04-25 02:35 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2007-04-25 02:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]arkofeden, 2007-04-25 04:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dashingpooka, 2007-04-25 05:18 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mauser, 2007-04-26 01:25 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]manycolored, 2007-04-25 05:33 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dashingpooka, 2007-04-25 10:59 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]_eljefe_, 2007-04-26 03:08 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dashingpooka, 2007-04-26 02:42 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]newroticgirl
2007-04-25 02:22 pm UTC (link)
*pompoms*

I think you're awesome.

So there! :D

(Reply to this)

[info]okojosan
2007-04-25 02:24 pm UTC (link)
When someone said, "I'm trying to buy books like Kushiel's Dart

That makes me sad. Doesn't anyone want anything original? I know, I know, only 7 "stories" out there, but c'mon.

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[info]ellyssian
2007-04-25 02:29 pm UTC (link)
No wonder no one buys my work.

There's little to no money in originality, which is a shame. I've spent a lot of time considering this - particularly with regards to music performance, although I've seen the same patterns in writing.

As soon as One Thing becomes big, everything must be like that One Thing until that One Thing no longer sells. Something Else is then promoted to the One Thing, and the former One Thing becomes Nothing.

If an entity is known for their One Thing, when they naturally change and hopefully grow, they flip a coin; heads, they have created Something Else; tails, they have moved directly to Nothing.

Although I haven't been observing long enough for concrete proof, I can guess that all the One Things and Something Elses and most of the Nothings will all just be considered curiosities in time; the Real Good Stuff slips by unnoticed by most - certainly not seen by the entirety of Pop Culture - and that is what will last.

Not that it creates huge dividends for its creator, but some heirs down the line might do well from our efforts! =)

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[info]haikujaguar
2007-04-25 02:34 pm UTC (link)
What confuses me is that I don't feel like I'm doing any grandly original work. I write space opera. Alien romance novels. Epic fantasy. This is, you'd think, fairly marketable stuff.

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[info]ellyssian
2007-04-25 02:54 pm UTC (link)
I'm fairly sure that if you thought you were doing grandly original work, that would foul everything up, and it would be either a trite copy of everything else or so out there nobody could understand it! =)

You have an original voice with your work, and there's a sense of integrity about it.

As far as epic fantasy, I think that requires an elf, dwarf, wizard, halfling, and... or does it need a school where they teach magic?

It's just as you pointed out: they narrow down what they're looking for. Eventually they burn out the trend, but they've been nursing another one that's ready for overexposure, and the cycle continues.

Your stuff - and the works of other writers, artists, and musicians I know - does have appeal, and is marketable, but the industries surrounding the creative element are just looking at the highest profitability. They want only bestsellers, and they think they know what that takes: that narrow point, that One Thing.

I once had a certain small press editor tell me that some of my horror work built up a great sense of dread, but he wasn't going to use it because I never came right out and told him what it was he should be afraid of - I left it unknown. What made that hurt, was that this same press published essays on HP Lovecraft, including at least a few titles that included his piece on how the best kind of horror was that of the unknown...

Sometimes you just can't figure. Go with Vonnegut: "Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia."



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(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2007-04-25 03:07 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ellyssian, 2007-04-25 03:23 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]cissa, 2007-04-25 09:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ellyssian, 2007-04-25 11:03 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]artfulruin
2007-04-25 02:37 pm UTC (link)
This makes me laugh. I'm laughing with you, mind you.

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[info]haikujaguar
2007-04-25 02:40 pm UTC (link)
It's better than the alternative. -_-


The "First Person Gutsy" thing is realllly getting to me. Well, okay, it's more "First Person Snarky." So over the snarky. I barely tolerate snark in my friends, and I'm supposed to do it in strangers? *snort*

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[info]archangelbeth
2007-04-25 02:54 pm UTC (link)
I like a good snark at times! But it has to be a good snark, like, um... Luke 20:20-26. *hangs head guiltily*

Snark with exasperated justification. Snark with tension. Snark with UST. Mmmm, UST-snark...

Snark for snark's sake... not so much. Free-floating snark is easy to do badly. Which book went back on the sell-back pile, dare I ask? Or an author?

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(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2007-04-25 03:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]archangelbeth, 2007-04-25 03:50 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]artfulruin
2007-04-25 02:56 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, it's as if snark=clever.

I used to be far more snarky. But then I read John Knowles saying, "Sarcasm is the defense of weak people."

It gave me a lot to think about, and while I still use sarcasm/snark (and come up with a LOT more in my head than I ever say), I try to be more straightforward now.

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(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2007-04-25 03:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dulcinbradbury, 2007-04-25 03:07 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]manycolored, 2007-04-25 05:36 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]artfulruin, 2007-04-26 03:02 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]_eljefe_, 2007-04-26 02:58 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]artfulruin, 2007-04-26 02:59 am UTC (Expand)

[info]wolfbrotherjoe
2007-04-25 03:05 pm UTC (link)
There's only one thing that bothers me about the Dresden Files.

I've been working for years on trying to put together this story concept about a detective in Chicago who has to deal with the supernatural... and when I read the Dresden Files, as much as I loved it to death ... I started realizing that if I ever got mine out, it might be viewed as ... well, not a clone, but heavily influenced.

But then, if what you're saying is true, that might be a benefit... *sigh*

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[info]haikujaguar
2007-04-25 03:20 pm UTC (link)
Move it to a different city. -_-

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[info]wolfbrotherjoe
2007-04-25 04:23 pm UTC (link)
Mmnnnnn... Yessss... but it needs to be near Milwaukee. And Chicago feels *so much* more Noir than Milwaukee does... and I need to approach Milwaukee from the South...

Mmf. I'm not sure I can change the city...

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(no subject) - [info]razzek, 2007-04-25 05:10 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]wolfbrotherjoe, 2007-04-25 07:26 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]razzek, 2007-04-26 06:23 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]wolfbrotherjoe, 2007-04-26 06:58 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]razzek, 2007-04-27 05:20 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]cissa, 2007-04-25 09:47 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]wolfbrotherjoe, 2007-04-26 07:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]cissa, 2007-04-26 07:39 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]ellyssian
2007-04-25 03:31 pm UTC (link)
Heh. I was working on an alternate-history piece involving a complex cryptographic puzzle and one of my major supporting characters was this Italian guy named Leo...

I haven't figured out how I want to pull it all together now, given that some other guy received some measure of success with a book called The DaVinci Code... =)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]silenceleigh
2007-04-25 03:50 pm UTC (link)
Heh. I know what you mean. I have a thing that would like to be a book some day--I'd need to put in some serious work on it, but the characters, setting, and story are solid.

Only...telepathic dragons.

Sigh.

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[info]haikujaguar
2007-04-25 03:53 pm UTC (link)
It's been long enough since the last telepathic dragons that I think you're good to go!

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[info]dancinghorse
2007-04-25 03:58 pm UTC (link)
Kushiel's Dart is a bad clone of Renault's The Persian Boy, which tells you how far back the bad-clone chain can run. Readers in their masses love bad clones. The badder the better.

I hear Carey herself tried to sell a series with a male protagonist and was told not to change her own formula. She had to change publishers.

It's bizarre out there. All you can do is keep on lobbing bits at the wall until one finally sticks.

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[info]haikujaguar
2007-04-25 04:03 pm UTC (link)
Fortunately I seem to have a pathological condition in which I can't stop lobbing bits, whether there's a wall to hit or not... :P


More humorously, your comment reminds me of an epithet I used to hear when I was little, which was "plasta". I grokked the meaning from the context, but one day I actually asked my mother what it meant. She said, "A plasta is..." Long pause. "Well, it's a person who, if you threw them at a wall, would stick and then slide to the floor."

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(no subject) - [info]sartorias, 2007-04-25 05:47 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]cissa
2007-04-25 09:48 pm UTC (link)
See, to me it was more of a clone of Richard Adam's "Maia"- which annoyed me enough that I've never read anything of his since.

Even though "Girl in a Swing" was really creepy.

(Reply to this)(Parent)
mumblings
[info]marykate_gift
2007-04-25 04:28 pm UTC (link)
I stopped reading Anita Blake. She didn't make it past book 4 in that series. They were so good. Then suddenly? They were so bad. *shrug* And don't even get me started on Ann Rice... This November I did NaNoWriMo and finished the 50K words in one month. It was a good process for me. But I found that quite a few of my characters are... first person snarky. But it isn't really first person snarky... it's first person angry with no healthy way to process through it, so it becomes snarky because they are wounded.

I respect your work. Sometimes I understand it, sometimes I just enjoy the ride of it not *exactly* sure where it is going. It took me a while to get into the groove here. The 'out of left field' tidbits that left me wanting more. More of Shame, more of the Calligrapher...

Your characters have a wonderful voice and your transmit their message well. Selling them? Maybe you should ask them for suggestions. *smile* Although, I suspect they don't care if their message is heard or not. After all YOU heard it...

You won't give up, because giving up isn't your nature from what I can tell. And one day you'll stumble upon a publisher who *gets* you. Let me know when that day comes along. I'd be glad to get your books. I'd be glad to get my students to read your books. I teach Sci Fi during the year and I'd enjoy using your books... did you want to include lesson plans with those?

*grin*

in the meantime... I'll just keep reading here. Small, eclectic bits are better than no bits at all.

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Re: mumblings
[info]soldiergrrrl
2007-04-25 05:36 pm UTC (link)
Yes, yes, yes and yes.

You took the words right out of my mouth...er...the pixels off my screen?

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]cissa
2007-04-25 09:39 pm UTC (link)
Anita and Phedre were both annoying bints. I read some, and moved on.

I do still enjoy Harry Dresden, though. That series may have jumped the shark, but so far for me it's still interesting. In particular, I'm taken with the 3 vampire courts, and the whole White Council, and the blessed swords thing... I think Butcher is doing a good job thus far.

I'd totally go for the male ambassador. Especially if there were good females as well- that's certainly a problem with Butcher.

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[info]mauser
2007-04-26 01:29 am UTC (link)
By the way, I haven't been reading the books, but I have been enjoying the series on SciFi, (Which, I'm sure, has very little to do with the books, right?).

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(no subject) - [info]cissa, 2007-04-26 02:03 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mauser, 2007-04-26 02:52 am UTC (Expand)

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